Interrogation of
Paul MacDonald &
Maynard C. Meuli

Ref: Narumi POW Camp

Narumi Main

Source: RG331-X-Box 940-Nag-02B-Narumi files & Death Lists- IMG_002
Transcribed by: Vince Lopata

Date: 10 March 1947

Report of Investigation Division, Legal Section, GHQ, SCAP.

Inv. Div. No. 127 CRD No. Report by: Sgt Samuel B. Moody

Title: Nagoya POW Camp #2, Narumi.

Synopsis of facts:
MacDonald identifies photographs of "Pontiac", "Speedo day", and "Fur Collar Mike". Alleges "Fish Face" involved in beating of WAGNER and OWENS. Photographs of TANAKA being forwarded to ZI for exhibition to MEULI.
Reference: Report of Mr. Robert M. Ousley, dated 29 January 1947.


At Yokohama:
On 8 March 1947, Mr. Paul MacDonald was interviewed at the Office of the Provost Marshall at Yokohama at which time he executed the following voluntary statement, the original of which is being submitted to the Criminal Registry Division with their own copy of this report:

Q. Will you please give your name?
A. Paul MacDonald.

Q. Will you please give your age?
A. 44 years.

Q. Will you please give your address?
A. 145 Gen. Salano, Manila, P.I.

Q. Will you please give your occupation?
A. Business man.

Q. Where were you captured?
A. Bataan, Kil 162 ½.

Q. What prisoner of War Camps were you a POW in?
A. Cabanatuan, Bilibid, Port Area.

Q. When did you leave the Philippine Islands to go to Japan?
A. July 1944. [Nissyo Maru]

Q. When did you arrive at Narumi POW Nagoya?
A. August 1944.

Q. How did you stay there?
A. Till September 2, 1945.

Q. Do you remember any War Crimes Atrocities?
A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember the "Wagner Incident"?
A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember any particular Japanese that beat Wagner?
A. There were so many Japanese that hit him I can't remember them all clearly, but I do remember of one called Fish Face, another named Snag, and the Camp Commander whose name was Okada, and another fellow we called Joe Louis who beat him and kicked him very brutally.

Q. Can you identify any of the above mentioned persons?
A. I could identify all by picture but I can describe this Fish Face, he was about 5 feet 8 inches tall, with a squeaky voice and a round flat face and he has bad hands. He is the only one I can really describe.

Q. Do you remember any other atrocities?
A. Yes, the time Mickey Owens was caught with a canteen of oil and taken out of the line at the camp. There were many guards around him and they stripped him and a fellow named White, and stood them at attention, naked in front of Barracks #1 and the Guard House all night. The Camp Commander hit him several times with a two by four and broke his arm. The next morning when we were going to work they were still there with blood all over them and swollen faces and black eyes.

Q. Can you remember anyone who took part in this beating?
A. All the Japanese Guards from the factory, (not the soldiers) but the Camp Guards and Commander took part in this beating, but the Camp Commander was responsible.

Q. Do you remember any other atrocities?
A. No, nothing in particular outside of these two cases with the exception of routine beatings daily to any men in camp for the most minor infraction of the rules or displeasing any of the guards or stick men.

Q. Can you identify this picture?
A. Yes.

Q. Will you identify these men by number?
A. No. 1 was called "Pontiac", No. 2 was called "Speedo day", No. 3 was called "Fur Collar Mike". I have nothing more to add."

The photograph of "Pontiac", Speedo day", and "Fur Collar Mike", is attached to the Affidavitt executed by MacDonald. The three individuals referred to above are presently in Sugamo Prison, the individual referred to as "Fur Collar Mike", being identified with Jirokichi ITO, "Speedo day" is identical with Hideo SAKAI and "Pontiac" is identical with Hobue KOKUBO.

Mr. MacDonald is presently enroute to the United States, abroad the transport , GENERAL GORDON, and upon completion of his visit, which is for business puposes, he will return to his permanent address at 145 Gen. Salano, Manila, P.I.


Mr. Gray has turned over a copy of the affidavit executed by Maynard C. MEULI, whose permanent address is Students' Union Building, University of New Mexico. The affidavit reads as follows:

Q. State your name and address.
A. Maynard C. Meuli, 3716 Mesa Verde Drive, Albuquerque, New Mexico. [Maynard Christian Meuli]

Q. What is your business or occupation?
A. I am manager of the Students' Union Building, University of New Mexico.

Q. Were you formerly in the military service of the United States?
A. Yes.

Q. On what date did you enter the military service?
A. March 14, 1941.

Q. Upon what date were separated from the military service?
A. June 4, 1946.

Q. Did you serve in the Army outside the continental limits of the United States?
A. Yes.

Q. What date, if you remember, did you leave the United States for foreign service?
A. September 8, 1941.

Q. Where did you service overseas?
A. In the Philippines, Clark Field. [200th CAC]

Q. Were you captured as a military prisoner during your period of duty overseas?
A. Yes.

Q. State the time and place of your capture?
A. Corregidor, P.I., May 6, 1942.

Q. After you were taken prisoner, where were you removed to?
A. I remained in the Philippines until July of 1944. Then I was moved directly to Nagoya POW Camp No. 2, Narumi, Honshu, Japan. [Nissyo Maru]

Q. What organization were you a member of at the time of your capture?
A. the 200th Coast Artillery.

Q. Were other members of your organization captured at the same time you were?
A. Yes.

Q. How long were you held in confinement as a prisoner of war in Japan?
A. Thirteen months. From July of 1944 until August 1945.

Q. While at Nagoya POW Camp No. 2, Narumi, Honshu, Japan, were the following Americans also held at this camp as Japanese prisoners of war: Edward C. Niemayer [Niemeyer] : Millard A. Orsini; John Alden Bristow; Macy F. Brent; Lieutenant Kissell; Chaplain [Stanley J.] Reilly; Moody [Samuel B.]; Dube; [Charles H.] Weston; Owens; White; Allen; Holt; Golly; Courier [?]; Connel [?]; Sawichi [Sawicki]; and Insley [?]?
A. I do remember that they were all held there as Japanese Prisoners of war.

Q. Do you know if they were captured when you were?
A. Part of them were. All were captured from the Philippines.

Q. What kind of work were you and the other American prisoners named above compelled to do by the Japanese while confined in the Philippine Island?
A. Some of these men worked in the construction of airfields in the Philippines. Others of us worked with transportation of Air Corps supplies, including airplane parts, aviation gasoline and oils. Most of the American prisoners were used by the Japanese in the construction of Japanese airfields.

Q. After you and the other prisoners were removed from the Philippine Islands to Japan, what kind of work were you required to do while held in Japan?
A. Our camp did general common labor in a locomotive factory. This factory also made certain military supplies which I assisted in the construction of or transportation of, including suicide boats, bombs, torpedoes and locomotives.

Q. Did you know the Japanese officer in charge of Nagoya POW Camp No. 2 Narumi, Honshu, Japan while you were confined there?
A. I knew our first Japanese commander by the name of "Frog Eyes". He was in charge about eight or nine months. The second and last Co, I don't recall any nicknames or know his name.

Q. Can you describe the Japanese officer you knew as "Frog Eyes" Four /a/MCM?
A. He was somewhat taller than the average Japanese and somewhat more slender. I would guess his weight at 150 pounds and his age at about thirty to thirty-five. He was a second lieutenant. He was a very neat man, with a very fair complexion and no distinguishing scars or marks. The second CO was a stocky built individual. He was around forty-five or fifty years of age. He was also a second lieutenant. I do not recall his nickname.

Q. Do you recall the beating of Millard A. Orsini in January, 1945, by Japanese guards?
A. I do.

Q. State the names, as you knew them by, of the Japanese guards who on this occasion beat Millard A. Orsini.
A. We knew the guards as "Snag" and "Dempsey".

Q. Do you remember the circumstances surrounding the beating of Orsini by the two Japanese guards known as "Snag" and "Dempsey"?
A. On this occasion, after we had finished work for the day in the factory, we had our evening formation, roll call and inspection. One of the guards found a small scratch pad in the hip pocket of Orsini. He was pulled out of formation and the pad was given to this guard "Snag". "Snag" questioned Orsini, and Orsini stated that he was taking it to camp for use as toilet paper. This execuse was not accepted by the guard. He then began beating Orsini with his gists in the face. After striking him several times, another guard known as "Dempsey" came up and began striking Orsini with his fists in the face. Orsini's nose and mouth began to bleed while he was still being struck. Finally Orsini fell to the ground and both guards began kicking him and attempting to kick him in the head and between his legs. After that then, they just directed him to get up and return to the formation.

Q. Do you remember of any occasion or occasions while you were held as a prisoner of war of the Japanese in Japan of Prisoner Kissell having been beaten by the Japanese?
A. Yes, sir, I do. This Lieutenant Kissell, who was in charge of our group, received one slapping by "Slap Happy" because one man failed to report to our working detail formation promptly on time. He was slapped by the Japanese guard we knew as "Slap Happy". On one other occasion Kissell was beaten by a Japanese guard whose name I do not recall.

Q. Do you remember of any occasion or occasions when Chaplain Reilly, an American prisoner, was struck or beaten by the Japanese guards while you were held as a prisoner in Japan?
A. Yes. I remember that on one occasion he was beaten by the Japanese because of misunderstandings with the Japanese interpreter over the usage of books that were loaned to the American prisoners. I don't remember who he was beaten by or the circumstances.

Q. Do you remember of any occasion when Sergeant Moody, American prisoner, was beaten by the Japanese while you were confined at POW Camp No. 2 in Japan?
A. Yes. He was smuggling oils and other materials from the factory into our camp, and on one occasion he was caught by the Japanese guards. This happened in about May of 1945.

Q. Do you recall what punishment he received for this offence and who he was punished by?
A. He was ordered to stand in front of the Japanese guardhouse at attention, where each guard, at different intervals, as the guards passed by him, would slap his face with their fists. He remained in front of the guardhouse for about twelve hours.

Q. Do you remember any of the Japanese guards who struck or beat him?
A. No, I do not.

Q. Do you recall of any other occasion when Moody was punished by the Japanese and the circumstances surrounding the punishment?
A. He was punished on other occasions but I do not remember the circumstances.

Q. Do you recall any occasion or occasions when Master Sergeant Dube was punished by the Japanese while in confinement in Japan?
A. Yes. I recall of his being slapped by the guards. Sergeant Dube, Sergeant Macy F. Brent, Chief Petty Officer Golly of the Navy and myself were platoon leaders. Due to the fact that our men did not remain in a column of fours as we marched to the factory from the train on our way to work, the Japanese guard known as "Slap Happy" stopped our march and ordered the platoon sergeants properly line their men up in a column of fours again. As we were doing this he repeated in Japanese several times that the American soldier was no good. After our men were properly lined up and we reported to this guard he again repeated that American soldier was no good because they could not march in a column of fours, and then he slapped each of us platoon leaders about two times apiece. Similar incidents like this resulted in occasional slappings from Japanese guards I knew as "Dempsey", "Snap" and "Slap Happy".

Q. Do you recall of any occasion when First Class Petty Officer Weston was punished by the Japanese guards?
A. Yes. Again on this occasion it was more the whole staff of guards who worked him over. He was ordered up front of the Japanese guardhouse for the offence of carrying and smuggling food into camp from the outside. While standing at attention in front of the guardhouse he was beaten severely by various Jap guards included "Snag".

Q. Do you remember any occasion when Mr. Owens was beaten?
A. Yes. Mr. Owens was a civilian employee of the United States and was held with us in the prison camp in Japan. He was caught carrying oil into camp on July of 1945. Previous to this incident we had been warned that if anyone was caught brining in materials from the factory he would be compelled to stand in front of the Japanese guardhouse for a period of three days without food. On this occasion, Owens was ordered to start this procedure and was ordered to remove all his clothes. He stood in front of the guardhouse, outside, naked. During the early part of the evening he was beaten by several guards as they passed by and by one or two Japanese civilians who were also our bosses at the factory. During the first night it rained and it was rather cool. The next day he remained there in the sun until about 10:00 o'clock, at which time he fainted, and the camp commander ordered him returned to the American barracks where he recuperated. After examination by the doctor his arm was found to be broken. It was believed that his arm was broken when one guard struck him from behind with a board, and he attempted to keep the blow from hitting his body.

Q. Do you remember of any occasion when a sailor named White was punished in the Japanese Orison camp?
A. Yes I do. This Navy White on the same occasion as Owens was punished in like manner as before described as the punishment administered to Owens. At the same time, however, that Owens was returned to the barracks this Navy White was also permitted to return to the barracks from the guardhouse. I do not remember the name of any particular Japanese that hit either of them except that they were on duty in the camp at that time.

Q. Do you remember of any punishment having been administered to a soldier named Allen at this Japanese POW Camp?
A. No. I do not remember any severe punishment.

Q. Do you remember of any punishment having been administered to a soldier named Holt at this Japanese POW camp?
A. I do not remember any particular punishment to him.

Q. Do you remember of any punishment having been administered to Chiief Petty Officer Golly?
A. None in particular, except that already described.

Q. Do you remember of any punishment having been administered to Courier while at this Japanese POW camp?
A. None in particular.

Q. Do you remember of any occasion when Connel was punished by the Japanese?
A. None in particular.

Q. Do you remember of any occasion when a soldier named Sawicki was punished by the Japanese?
A. None in particular.

Q. Do you remember of any punishment having been administered to a soldier named Tinsley who was held with you at this Japanese POW camp?
A. Yes, I do. He was caught one night returning to our barracks from the Canadian POW Barracks by "Slap Happy". It was against the Japanese rules to visit in the Canadian POW barracks by Americans. He was apprehended and severely slapped and beaten about the face by "Slap Happy" and perhaps another guard. I don't know, until he was knocked down, and then he was kicked. On the same occasion Lieutenant Kissell was beaten by the same guards for not watching his men better.

Q. Do you know the true and correct names of the following Japanese guards who were at this POW camp in Japan, known by the following nicknames: "Fur Collared Mike"; "Mussolini"; "Spider"; "Pontiac"; "Nigger"; "Dempsey"; "Frog Eyes"; "Smiling Jack"; Philippine Kind"; "Joe Louis"; "Violet Eyes" and "Slap Happy"?
A. These men were Japanese guards and civilians at the prisoner of war camp where I was confined at Narumi, Honshu, Japan, but I do not know them other than by the nicknames above referred to.

Q. Are you able to describe each of these Japanese sufficiently so that they could be identified by your description?
A. No, I don't believe I could give a detailed description of each sufficiently to identify them.

Q. What was your grade at the time you were taken prisoner?
A. I was a Master Sergeant and served as a platoon leader in Japan.

Q. Do you recall any other beating, beatings, or punishment imposed on American POW in this Japanese prisoner of war camp by the Japanese?
A. In June of 1945 there was a sailor whose name I do not presently recall, known as "Red". On this occasion, which was the second time that he had been caught sneaking out of our barracks at night and taking food from the kitchens and storerooms if he could enter them, the camp commander ordered for his punishment a month of solitary confinement on a small ration of food. At first, for a period of one day, he remained in front of the Japanese guardhouse where he was beaten severely by several Japanese guards. While there he was exposed to the weather. Then he was put into solitary confinement, where he was given a very small quantity of rice and tea per day. He lived fourteen days in this confinement until he died.

Q. Do you recall of any incident or incidents while held as a prisoner in Japan of the beating of Canadian prisoners of war?
A. The Canadian prisoners were in the same camp, but were segregated from us, and I have no knowledge of any beatings given them by the Japanese."

A photograph of Tokuichi TANAKA is being forwarded to the Zone of Interior for exhibition to MEULI in an effort to determine whether he can identify this individual as the man known to him as "Fish Face". The results of this inquiry will be set forth as soon as returned from the States.


The Tokyo Office – At Tokyo – Will report the result of the inquiry of the Zone of Interior made for the purpose of having MEULI identify the photograph of TANAKA.

Will confer with Mr. Gray of the Prosecution Division for the purpose of determinig what further specific investigation he may desire conducted in this matter.


1 Prosecution (Mr. Gray)
1 CRD (encl)
1 Nagoya Office
3 Inv. Div (File 127)
1 Sgt Moody