JAPANESE-AMERICAN AND ALEUTIAN WARTIME RELOCATION


HEARINGS

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ADMINISTRATIVE LAW AND
GOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

NINETY-EIGHTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
ON

H.R. 3387, H.R. 4110, and H.R. 4322

JAPANESE-AMERICAN AND ALEUTIAN WARTIME RELOCATION

JUNE 20, 21, 27, AND SEPTEMBER 12, 1984

Serial No. 90


Printed for the use of the Committee on Judiciary

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
WASHINGTON : 1985
40-176 O

For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office
U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, DC 20402

64-273 O-86--1

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

PETER W. RODINO, JR., New Jersey, Chairman
JACK BROOKS, Texas
HAMILTON FISH, JR., Missouri
ROBERT W. KASTENMEIER, Wisconsin
CARLOS J. MOORHEAD, Florida
DON EDWARDS, California
HENRY J. HYDE, Georgia
JOHN CONYERS, JR., Michigan
THOMAS N. KINDNESS, Ohio
JOHN F. SEIBERLING, Ohio
HAROLD S. SAWYER, Tennessee
ROMANO L. MAZZOLI, Kentucky
DAN LUNGREN, Michigan
WILLIAM J. HUGHES, New Jersey
F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, JR., New Mexico
SAM B. HALL, Texas
BILL McCOLLUM, Arkansas
MIKE SYNAR, Oklahoma
E. CLAY SHAW, JR., Florida
PATRICIA SCHROEDER, Colorado
GEORGE W. GEKAS,
DAN GLICKMAN, Kansas
MICHAEL DeWINE, Ohio
BARNEY FRANK, Massachusetts

GEO. W. CROCKETT, JR., Michigan

CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York

BRUCE A. MORRISON, Connecticut

EDWARD F. FEIGHAN, Ohio

LAWRENCE J. SMITH, Florida

HOWARD L. BERMAN, California

FREDERICK C. BOUCHER, Virginia

M. ELAINE MIELKE, General Counsel
GARNER J. CLINE, Staff Director
ALAN F. COFFEY, JR., Associate Counsel
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ADMINISTRATIVE LAW AND GOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS
SAM B. HALL, JR., Texas, Chairman
ROMANO L. MAZZOLI, Kentucky
THOMAS N. KINDNESS, Ohio
BARNEY FRANK, Massachusetts
BILL McCOLLUM, Florida
HOWARD L. BERMAN, California
E. CLAY SHAW, JR., Florida
FREDERICK C. BOUCHER, Virginia

WILLIAM P. SHATTUCK, Counsel
JANE S. POTTS, Assistant Counsel
STEVEN N. DOUGLAS, Assistant Counsel
DAVID L. KARMOL, Associate Counsel

NOTE: [Bracketed] text in original. This excerpt starts from page 568 of the record.

Mr. HALL. Our next witness is Mr. Ken Masugi, a resident fellow at the Claremont Institute. We are very happy to have you, sir, and you may begin with your testimony.

TESTIMONY OF DR. KEN MASUGI,
RESIDENT FELLOW, CLAREMONT INSTITUTE

Mr. MASUGI. Thank you, Mr. Hall and members of the committee.

It is with some sadness that I find myself testifying against the Commission's report, it's recommendations and H.R. 4110. As the son of parents who were relocated...

{This portion from the record is identical to Mr. Masugi's first statement of July 27, 1983, which can be read here (IA205). The following continues on page 597 of the record.}

...Mr. HALL. Thank you for your statement.

I believe you indicated that your parents were relocated during this period of time.

Mr. MASUGI. That is correct.

Mr. HALL. Were you a part of the family at that time?

Mr. MASUGI. No, I was not. I was born afterward.

Mr. HALL. All right.

What effect did that internment have on you by just knowing about it?

Mr. MASUGI. Knowing about it got me interested in political science and in the great question of what justice can mean for Americans, particularly Americans whose ancestors recently came from abroad.

Mr. HALL. What effect did it have on your parents?

Mr. MASUGI. Well, it meant economic loss---

Mr. HALL. Are they still living?

Mr. MASUGI. Yes.

It meant economic loss for them, besides relocation. They spent most of the war in the Minidoka Camp in Idaho.

Mr. HALL. How long were they in a camp?

Mr. MASUGI. From 1942 through 1945.

Mr. HALL. Were they allowed to leave the camp on occasion?

Mr. MASUGI. Yes. They did go in and out, in fact. For example, they would get part-time work, say, picking sugar beets. They would do that and then go back into the camp when that season was over.

Mr. HALL. What business or profession was your father in prior to the relocation?

Mr. MASUGI. They both ran a fruit and vegetable market. They lost that, of course, as a result of the relocation. After the war, my father resumed work as a gardener and my mother as a seamstress.

Mr. HALL. You suggest that this legislation will more likely than not promote racism and bigotry. If Congress does nothing at this time to address the internment of Americans of Japanese ancestry during WWII, could that be implied that the American Government condones what happened over 40 years ago?

Mr. MASUGI. I should certainly hope not. What I hope would happen is that we get a really decent objective history and not simply a rehash of that history that has come out before. I, by no means, condemn the whole of the report. I think there are useful and interesting parts of it. But I think that that can be done through nongovernmental means as it traditionally has been rather that the Federal Government putting its resources behind what I have described as a scholarly dubious document.

Mr. HALL. Do you have any opinion on whether the Japanese-American community generally supports the recommendations of the Commission?

Mr. MASUGI. Well, I have no definite way of saying, but just let me say that I am speaking just as an individual. The representatives of the Japanese-American Citizens League, I suppose, will claim that they represent the views of most Japanese-Americans. They may even be correct on that. But I, too, am a member of the Japanese-American Citizens League, and I certainly don't feel represented by their point of view.

Mr. HALL. By the way, did you testify before the Commission?

Mr. MASUGI. No, I did not.

Mr. HALL. Were you requested to, or did you ask to testify before the Commission?

Mr. MASUGI. No, I didn't. My own thoughts on the activities of the Commission became focused as I gradually learned more about it. I did begin to write material about the Commission during the time of its hearings -- newspaper editorials, and so on -- and I will continue my scholarship on it.

Mr. HALL. Mr. Kubo, while you are here, did you testify before the Commission?

Mr. KUBO. No, I did not.

Mr. HALL. Were you requested to do so or did you request to so testify?

I will ask it again so the record will be complete.

Mr. Kubo, did you testify before the Commission?

Mr. KUBO. No, I did not.

Mr. HALL. Did you request to testify?

Mr. KUBO. No, I did not. The reason for that was that I am in a line of work that has kept me very busy. I came in last night, and I am leaving tomorrow. I have activities that do not allow me the time.

Thank you.

Mr. HALL. Thank you.

I am sure that in the work you do, in the studies you do -- you have been a professor in political science for some time.

Mr. MASUGI. Yes, sir.

Mr. HALL. Have you had occasion to study in great detail the happenings that occurred on the west coast after December 7, 1941, as a result of this Executive order?

Mr. MASUGI. I have read most of the standard literature on the subject.

Mr. HALL. Do you have an opinion now as to whether or not, from what you have read, that President Roosevelt and those who had knowledge of MAGIC code had the right to relocate those 115,000 or 120,000 people at that time?

Mr. MASUGI. I think you have to make a distinction here. That is, he may well have had the right to initiate that policy, but he could have proceeded in a much more humane way. I think these questions remain open. That is one of my objections to the Commission report. It does not treat the questions in their fullness as questions and, hence, it is simply not good objective history by which we can come to some conclusion about what actually happened.

Mr. HALL. Are you familiar with the MAGIC code?

Mr. MASUGI. No. All I know about it what I hear from the Commission hearings.

Mr. HALL. I see.

Mr. MASUGI. It is simply secondary knowledge.

Mr. HALL. OK.

We thank you for your testimony. We appreciate your patience. All of you, we appreciate your patience. It is taking longer than we anticipated, but I think this is of such importance, I am not going to try to curtail the time on the amount of time that is taken for testimony. Thank you very much, sir.

Mr. MASUGI. Thank you.
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